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Refine Crumble Shaft#2147

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osse101 merged 5 commits intovg-json-data:masterfrom
blkerby:crumble-shaft-wj
Jul 26, 2025
Merged

Refine Crumble Shaft#2147
osse101 merged 5 commits intovg-json-data:masterfrom
blkerby:crumble-shaft-wj

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@blkerby blkerby commented Jul 21, 2025

  • Many heat frames are tightened.
  • More lenience is added to the wall-jump climbs on low difficulty (especially Medium)
  • Some apparently non-useful strats are removed:
    • HiJump Climb: The instruction to wall jump directly off the top-right crumble block seemed questionable; using the floating crumble platform is much easier and also seems faster. I combined this with the bootless version since there doesn't seem to be a reason for it to be a separate strat.
    • WallJump and SpringBall: The problem is the Sova gets in your way where you want to bounce with Spring Ball. You can wait for it with canStaggeredWalljump, or bounce in a very precise place on the edge of the crumbles; but these both seem more difficult than just wall jumping the regular way off the side of the crumble block.
    • Frozen Sova Climb: With the left-side climb, a Sova gets directly in your way (assuming a bottom-door entry), so you either have to staggered wall jump to wait for it, or carefully wall jump around it. The whole thing seems significantly more difficult than just walljumping up the right side the regular way.

Wall jumping up either side of the room is quite tricky for Medium: I think it can be ok but we have to allow for the fact that the player is expected to fall down many times, either from missing the precise wall jumps or from Sovas getting in the way. So that's the reason for adding the extra lenience heat frames in the absence of canDodgeWhileShooting tech. And those will stack on top of the heat damage multiplier, which I think is necessary; at that level, the player is going to want to have a ton of tanks here.

@blkerby blkerby added the Area:Norfair Stuff in Norfair label Jul 21, 2025
Comment thread region/norfair/west/Crumble Shaft.json Outdated
Comment thread region/norfair/west/Crumble Shaft.json
{"and": [
"HiJump",
"canTrickyDodgeEnemies",
{"heatFrames": 370}
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For this time I had to enter with a spinjump

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@osse101 osse101 Jul 25, 2025

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I tried ledge grabbing and moving better.
HiJump: 320
No HiJump + kill final sova: 486
https://videos.maprando.com/video/7198


I can't get comfortable crumble jumping with or without HJB to the top so I would want both in extreme.
So I would want extra lenience for Expert, like the energy to fall and retry, or ice to build safe spots while climbing.

I also saw that ice+HiJump can climb without any crumble jumps pretty reasonably.

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Oh yeah, Ice+HiJump is a good one, added that now.

The crumble jumping is interesting. After playing with it more, I kind of find it safer now than the wall jump strat. With the wall jumps, I sometimes miss getting into one of the 1-tile spaces or accidentally break spin doing the wiggle at the top. The crumble jumps are simpler and there's less that can go wrong. If I fall it is usually recoverable by crumble jumping off the platform below; I don't think freezing enemies would make it easier as it kind of just complicates things. I'm doing regular crumble jumps here though. Crumble spin jumping like in your video seems crazy difficult to me; I tried for a while but couldn't even make it to the third platform that way, haha. Those are 2-frame windows for each jump in that case, compared to 8-frame window for regular crumble jumps.

Video of doing a bunch of attempts of the crumble jump vs. wall jumps: https://videos.maprando.com/video/7200 (not a fair comparison because I was practicing the crumble jumps more today 🤷 )

I don't actually think the crumble jump should be placed lower than the wall jumps, but Extreme seems too high I think. I'm not really sure what to do with the crumble spin jump numbers because that seems so difficult I'm not sure what the requirements would look like.

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Extreme has to be too high.
The heat frame counts are complicated. Reckless movement saves seconds and falling doubles your damage taken.

Comment thread region/norfair/west/Crumble Shaft.json Outdated
@osse101 osse101 merged commit 8723df5 into vg-json-data:master Jul 26, 2025
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@blkerby blkerby deleted the crumble-shaft-wj branch February 15, 2026 00:07
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